Salt Mines

Entries categorized as ‘boundaries’

from "Boundaries in Marriage" by Cloud & Townsend

December 2, 2007 · Leave a Comment

Here is an excerpt from Boundaries in Marriage about two different routes marriage can take. Mine is moving from “Harold and Sarah” to “Frank and Julia”Quoted from Boundaries in Marriage by Cloud and Townsend

A Tale of Two Couples…
With Harold and Sarah, I enjoyed a buffet dinner where you get a ticket for various parts of the meal and you have to leave the table with your ticket and go get your item. The dinner was winding down; we were ready for dessert. Harold reached into his shirt pocket and pulled out his dessert ticket. Tossing it in front of Sarah, he said casually, “Sarah, dessert.” Not “Please, Sarah, will you get my dessert for me?” And certainly not “Can I get your dessert, honey?” Harold was assuming Sarah would obediently comply with his two word command.I didn’t know what to say, so I sat there and watched. Sarah was clearly embarrassed by Harold’s public display of control. She sat there for a couple of seconds, apparently deciding what to do. Then she seemed to gather her courage and quietly but forcefully said, “Why don’t you get your own dessert?”Harold looked surprised. Evidently he wasn’t used to her refusing to obey his commands. However, he recovered, made a weak joke about uppity women, and left the table to redeem his ticket. While he was gone, Sarah said to me, “Sorry, I just couldn’t let it go this time with my friends here.” I felt so sad for Sarah, realizing that her reaction to her husband tonight was the exception rather than the rule. I also realized that, on a deeper level, while Harold and Sarah were legally connected, they were emotionally disconnected. Their hearts were not knit together.

Frank and Julia were different. I was traveling and they were hosting me. We went to their home after dinner. After awhile it was time for me to return to my hotel, and I needed a ride. Julia, a counselor like me, was primarily responsible for my trip and had been chauffeuring me to various speaking engagements and meetings. So clearly she was the person to take me back.

However, Frank looked at his wife and said, “You look tired, honey. I’ll take John back to his hotel.” I could see the conflict in Julia’s face between her duty to me and her need for rest. Finally, she said “Okay, thanks.” And Frank drove me to the hotel.

The next day, at the conference, I talked to Julia. I remarked on Frank’s kindness in offering the ride and on her struggle with taking the offer. She said, “It wasn’t always that way. In out twenties, he wouldn’t have offered, and I wouldn’t have taken the offer. But we worked on this issue a lot during those days. I had to put my foot down on some issues, and we almost divorced. It was a difficult period, but it has paid off. We can’t imagine not being each other’s soul mates.” During my time with them, I had observed that Frank’s and Julia’s hearts were knit together, that they were emotionally connected.

Though both couples had many years of marriage experience, each couple’s love and relationship had taken very different turns. Harold and Sarah were unable to love deeply and relate to each other, because Harold controlled Sarah and Sarah allowed him to control her . They had what are called major boundary conflicts, in which one person crosses the lines of responsibility and respect with another. When one person is in control of another, love cannot grow deeply and fully, as there is no freedom.

Categories: boundaries · control · marriage

from "Boundaries in Marriage" quote #2

December 1, 2007 · Leave a Comment

from Boundaries in Marriage by Cloud and Townsend



Yet, love is not enough. The marriage relationship needs other ingredients to grow and thrive. Those ingredients are freedom and responsibility. When two people are free to disagree, they are free to love. When they are not free, they live in fear, and love dies: “Perfect love casts out fear” (I John 4:18). And when two people together take responsibility to do what is best for the marriage, love can grow. When they do not, one takes on too much responsibility and resents it; the other does not take on enough and becomes self-centered or controlling…Boundaries in Marriage is fundamentally about love. It is about promoting it, growing it, developing it, and repairing it. We want to help you develop love through providing a better environment for it; one of freedom and responsibility. This is where boundaries, or personal property lines, come in. They protect love by protecting individuals.


Categories: boundaries · marriage · responsibility

from "Boundaries in Marriage" by Cloud & Townsend #3

December 1, 2007 · Leave a Comment

from Boundaries in Marriage by Cloud & Townsend

Let’s suppose your spouse is aware of your feelings and concerns, but ignores, minimizes, or otherwise resists your boundaries. If this is your situation, you have some work ahead of you. It is hard work, but it can also be the most productive thing you will ever do for your marriage…You must not approach this problem as if you are a team. At this point, you have an adversary. Like a child having a tantrum, your spouse may hate you for entering the world of boundaries. So understand that you are on your own, within the marriage, in approaching the issue. Actually, you are not alone; you have God… But you don’t expect much cooperation from your spouse.A few things you may be tempted to do will not help the situation at all. Remember these, tape them in your wallet and DON’T DO THEM!

- Don’t deny or minimize the situation if it is a significant boundary problem. Hiding from reality doesn’t change reality.
-Don’t ignore the situation, hoping it will get better. Time alone does not heal character immaturity.
-DON’T become more compliant and pleasing, hoping love will fix everything. Again, character issues demand more than love in order to mature.
-Don’t nag. Repeating the same protest over and over never changed anyone (Prov 21:9)
-Don’t be constantly surprised at your spouse’s behavior. This is a sign of a defensive hoping against hope. When out-of-control people have no external forces causing them pain, they generally stay out-of-control. Expect things to stay the same until you initiate changes within the marriage.
-Don’t blame. Very few marriage boundary conflicts involve an all innocent and all guilty party. Take ownership of your part of the issue, taking the log out of your own eye. (Matt 7:5)
-Don’t take total ownership of the problem. If you rescue your partner from his part, you will only make the issue worse (Prov 19:19)

Categories: boundaries · marriage

from “Boundaries in Marriage”

December 1, 2007 · Leave a Comment

Here is an excerpt from Boundaries in Marriage about two different routes marriage can take. Mine is moving from “Harold and Sarah” to “Frank and Julia”Quoted from Boundaries in Marriage by Cloud and Townsend

A Tale of Two Couples…
With Harold and Sarah, I enjoyed a buffet dinner where you get a ticket for various parts of the meal and you have to leave the table with your ticket and go get your item. The dinner was winding down; we were ready for dessert. Harold reached into his shirt pocket and pulled out his dessert ticket. Tossing it in front of Sarah, he said casually, “Sarah, dessert.” Not “Please, Sarah, will you get my dessert for me?” And certainly not “Can I get your dessert, honey?” Harold was assuming Sarah would obediently comply with his two word command.I didn’t know what to say, so I sat there and watched. Sarah was clearly embarrassed by Harold’s public display of control. She sat there for a couple of seconds, apparently deciding what to do. Then she seemed to gather her courage and quietly but forcefully said, “Why don’t you get your own dessert?”Harold looked surprised. Evidently he wasn’t used to her refusing to obey his commands. However, he recovered, made a weak joke about uppity women, and left the table to redeem his ticket. While he was gone, Sarah said to me, “Sorry, I just couldn’t let it go this time with my friends here.” I felt so sad for Sarah, realizing that her reaction to her husband tonight was the exception rather than the rule. I also realized that, on a deeper level, while Harold and Sarah were legally connected, they were emotionally disconnected. Their hearts were not knit together.

Frank and Julia were different. I was traveling and they were hosting me. We went to their home after dinner. After awhile it was time for me to return to my hotel, and I needed a ride. Julia, a counselor like me, was primarily responsible for my trip and had been chauffeuring me to various speaking engagements and meetings. So clearly she was the person to take me back.

However, Frank looked at his wife and said, “You look tired, honey. I’ll take John back to his hotel.” I could see the conflict in Julia’s face between her duty to me and her need for rest. Finally, she said “Okay, thanks.” And Frank drove me to the hotel.

The next day, at the conference, I talked to Julia. I remarked on Frank’s kindness in offering the ride and on her struggle with taking the offer. She said, “It wasn’t always that way. In out twenties, he wouldn’t have offered, and I wouldn’t have taken the offer. But we worked on this issue a lot during those days. I had to put my foot down on some issues, and we almost divorced. It was a difficult period, but it has paid off. We can’t imagine not being each other’s soul mates.” During my time with them, I had observed that Frank’s and Julia’s hearts were knit together, that they were emotionally connected.

Though both couples had many years of marriage experience, each couple’s love and relationship had taken very different turns. Harold and Sarah were unable to love deeply and relate to each other, because Harold controlled Sarah and Sarah allowed him to control her . They had what are called major boundary conflicts, in which one person crosses the lines of responsibility and respect with another. When one person is in control of another, love cannot grow deeply and fully, as there is no freedom.

Categories: boundaries · marriage
Tagged: , ,

from “Boundaries in Marriage #2

December 1, 2007 · Leave a Comment

~~~~~~~~~~~~
from Boundaries in Marriage by Cloud and Townsend


Yet, love is not enough. The marriage relationship needs other ingredients to grow and thrive. Those ingredients are freedom and responsibility. When two people are free to disagree, they are free to love. When they are not free, they live in fear, and love dies: “Perfect love casts out fear” (I John 4:18). And when two people together take responsibility to do what is best for the marriage, love can grow. When they do not, one takes on too much responsibility and resents it; the other does not take on enough and becomes self-centered or controlling…Boundaries in Marriage is fundamentally about love. It is about promoting it, growing it, developing it, and repairing it. We want to help you develop love through providing a better environment for it; one of freedom and responsibility. This is where boundaries, or personal property lines, come in. They protect love by protecting individuals.



Categories: boundaries · marriage
Tagged: , , , ,

Boundaries in Marriage #3

December 1, 2007 · Leave a Comment

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

quoted from Boundaries in Marriage by Cloud & Townsend

Let’s suppose your spouse is aware of your feelings and concerns, but ignores, minimizes, or otherwise resists your boundaries. If this is your situation, you have some work ahead of you. It is hard work, but it can also be the most productive thing you will ever do for your marriage…You must not approach this problem as if you are a team. At this point, you have an adversary. Like a child having a tantrum, your spouse may hate you for entering the world of boundaries. So understand that you are on your own, within the marriage, in approaching the issue. Actually, you are not alone; you have God… But you don’t expect much cooperation from your spouse.A few things you may be tempted to do will not help the situation at all. Remember these, tape them in your wallet and DON’T DO THEM!
- Don’t deny or minimize the situation if it is a significant boundary problem. Hiding from reality doesn’t change reality.
-Don’t ignore the situation, hoping it will get better. Time alone does not heal character immaturity.
-DON’T become more compliant and pleasing, hoping love will fix everything. Again, character issues demand more than love in order to mature.
-Don’t nag. Repeating the same protest over and over never changed anyone (Prov 21:9)
-Don’t be constantly surprised at your spouse’s behavior. This is a sign of a defensive hoping against hope. When out-of-control people have no external forces causing them pain, they generally stay out-of-control. Expect things to stay the same until you initiate changes within the marriage.
-Don’t blame. Very few marriage boundary conflicts involve an all innocent and all guilty party. Take ownership of your part of the issue, taking the log out of your own eye. (Matt 7:5)
-Don’t take total ownership of the problem. If you rescue your partner from his part, you will only make the issue worse (Prov 19:19)


Categories: boundaries · marriage
Tagged: , ,

Are You a Doormat?

November 9, 2007 · Leave a Comment

from Unbreakable Bonds by Meier:


The characteristics below reveal what you are choosing to give away in your choice to stay a doormat:

Doing things for others that they ought to be doing for themselves. I give away my praise. I live for the praise of others.

Others make my choices. I give away my priorities. Others direct my life. Others determine my self worth and define my identity. I give away my personhood. Others determine my value.

Rejection is what I fear most. I give away my purpose. I reduce my purpose to fear.

Mad at myself for not measuring up. I give away my pardon. I am perpetually self-critical.

Afraid of conflict. I give away my power. I teach myself that I do not deserve to be powerful.

True love is missing from my heart. I give away my plenty. I relinquish the abundance I could experience from loving myself unconditionally.

Categories: boundaries · doormat · recovery

"From Bondage to Bonding"

November 9, 2007 · Leave a Comment

Quotes from Nancy Groom From Bondage to Bonding: Escaping Codependency, Embracing Biblical Love

“Gentleness is possible even when rebuking those who harm us, because we know our purpose is not to destroy but to redeem. And patience becomes our habit because we know God isn’t finished with any of us yet, and because His presence enables us to endure out fiery trials with perseverance, if not always tranquility… Because Christ dwells within us, we can choose to act like Him… The first ingredient of forgiveness is loving confrontation… But it’s more loving-and more respectful-to hold others accountable. When codependents set appropriate boundaries for themselves by refusing to accept mistreatment, they are doing what is good not just for themselves but for their abusers as well… But setting limits and reestablishing boundaries meet the criteria for biblical love only if the focus is on mutual welfare, not revenge or personal safety. Forgiveness and restoration are impossible if sin is not addressed.” 158-9

 pg 20 “a codependent person is addicted… to a destructive pattern of relating to other people, a pattern usually learned from childhood in an abusive or non-nurturing home”

pg 34 “people damaged by childhood experiences who cope with their world by trying to please and who end up being controlled instead”

pg 36 “People pleasers lack the strength of character necessary to confront what may be a wrong attitude or action…”

pg 120 “Self-forfeiture… is counterproductive to the mutuality of relationship… A marionette has nothing to offer but compliance, and compliance isn’t intimacy. When we act like pawns in someone else’s chess game, we destroy God’s image in us disenfranchising ourselves from making out own choices. Our chosen self-forfeiture is a self protective strategy we must both repent and hold ourselves accountable to change”

pg 198 “The change process is almost never even; usually one person is ready to drop the wrong dependency long before the other. In such cases, offering one’s whole heart may need to be postponed until the other is ready to receive it. Jesus told his disciples shortly before His death, “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear”… Someone we love deeply may be unable to bear the depth of our pain or to share the burden of our self discoveries. We may need to suffer the loneliness of a waiting love, walking the tightrope of inviting the other in without revictimizing ourselves. [italics mine] Finally, we may need to relinquish the dream of deep intimacy with that person and turn to God with our overflowing hearts.”

“…abused women… convert their rage and self contempt into a passionate commitment to never be hurt again.” Pg. 54 “Codependents typically refuse to let themselves need the freely chosen tender involvement of others. Neediness terrifies them because it wasn’t safe to be needy in childhood… Neediness for some is also shameful. A woman, shamed as a child for being fearful or upset, represses instinctively her anxiety or sadness as an adult.” 55

“Often the anger experienced in their contemporary relationships is really a displaced anger from an earlier event or situation… Soul wounds do not heal if they are ignored. They continue to govern our emotions, our self-images, and our ways of interacting in relationships.” 90

“Depending utterly on God for our ultimate well-being is the doorway to intimacy, to a renewed freedom to love, to hurt, to laugh, to make mistakes, to ask forgiveness, to feel our feelings, to start each day new.” 147

“I must enter the abject humiliation of needing, of asking for what my soul longs for, instead of protecting myself from the pain of its loss… Most of all, surrendering to God requires that I fully own my personal responsibility ro love others well.” 148

Quotes from Nancy Groom From Bondage to Bonding: Escaping Codependency, Embracing Biblical Love
 

“Codependents with blurred boundaries often allow someone to hurt or abuse them because they somehow think that person has a right to invade their privacy, plans, or personal well-being with impunity…. In fact some of the messages she heard in church about submission reinforced her belief that she didn’t have any rights to claim for herself in relationship to [her husband]” pg 28

“Their behaviors might mimic the way Jesus lived, but in their inner spirits they are far from being the free, loving, glad servants Jesus modeled to His disciples. In fact, they see themselves as not only powerless but essentially worthless.” pg. 30

“The expectation of emotional deprivation goes hand in hand with low self-esteem… a part of her felt she didn’t really deserve a happy home or kind treatment from her husband and children. After all, she hadn’t always been the perfectly loving wife and mother she had wanted and always tried to be.” 39 “Self-contempt can wear many faces, sometimes passing for humility or selflessness. Her husband Jake batters her emotionally with critical, demeaning words. Because Angie blames and despises herself for the childhood incest, she never defends herself. She thinks she deserves Jake’s accusations and keeps trying harder to be the loving, chaste wife she inwardly despairs of ever being.” 39“Jesus was confidently aware of his own value. Self-contempt was the furthest thing from His mind… and in his awareness He yielded his rights for His chosen. The two go together: self-valuing and genuine love.” Pg. 41

“He [Jesus] never masked his feelings but expressed them openly and without shame. He wept… verbalized His frustration… expressed His anger… agonized… gave up His live with a loud scream…” 71

“God’s ‘solution’ is not to somehow get us to work harder to achieve what He commands us to do- ie love Him and others. Rather, He calls us to admit that we have not done and cannot do what He commands- our fallen nature makes it impossible. In the face of that impossibility to be perfect, we are left with the ultimate choice: despair or grace.” 131

“If we choose to move toward repentance we discover that our scrupulously polished exteriors camouflage deep self centeredness… God invites us to open our whitewashed tombs and expose the decadence of our lives to the cleansing power of His grace… We have shunned God, rejecting His grace in order to maintain our self-sufficiency. We have failed to love others with the kind of passionate other-centeredness God requires. And we have revictimized ourselves refusing to believe we’re loved with an everlasting love that prompts genuine self-love and grateful obedience.” 122

“An important part of my own recovery process is experiencing a redeemed Parent-child relationship with God, seeing myself as His beloved daughter and practicing a childlike relationship with Him in my spiritual walk. Young children have nothing to offer but themselves- their need, their trust, and their love. In His grace God reduces me toe the raw nakedness of needing and receiving- the stuff of children, even infants.” 142

“One of the most profound effects of being deeply connected to God is a renewed sense of our own preciousness. When I know and can believe God cherishes me as a beloved child, I can know and believe my worth as a person… We are children of the Great King and special to our Father. Princes and princesses don’t let themselves be abused; they like themselves and expect to be respected.” 144

Categories: Nancy Groom · boundaries · codependency · love · recovery

Self Evaluation

October 26, 2007 · Leave a Comment

From Serenity A Companion for Twelve Step Recovery Complete with New Testament Psalms & Proverbs :

“Step 10 encourages the taking of a personal inventory, which, for recovering persons, should be a daily process. Here are five components of this ongoing inventory:

1) What are our needs? These include basic needs, such as the need for love, acceptance, and security. Do we recognize these needs? Are they being met in some reasonable fashion?

2) What are out feelings? Especially we need to allow grief feelings to surface and be expressed. We also need to watch out for deep feelings of resentment, because resentment covers anger, anger covers hurt, hurt usually covers fear, and again, the deepest fear is that our basic human needs are not being met. In relationships we fear being rejected or abandoned.

3)What counterfeit, codependent, addictive means are we using in trying to meet out needs? Are we manipulating others? Are we overcontrolling others? Are we being perfectionistic or compulsive with ourselves or others? Are we attempting to win acceptance by playing the martyr or the victim role in relationships? Are we compulsively rescuing or enabling others? All of these are trigger questions to help us assess whether we are using bogus means to meet our needs.

4)What is our relationship with out own boundaries and with the boundaries of others? It is very important to know we can set appropriate interpersonal boundaries that are neither too rigid nor too fragile. Can we keep people out as we need to? Can we allow people in as we need to? Are we capable of saying yes to other persons and are we capable of saying no as necessary? Also, do we respect the boundaries of others? Do we hear and honor the yeses and noes they give us regarding their boundaries?

5) If we are aware of violating our own boundaries or the boundaries of others, are we able to reestablish new, proper boundaries? Are we able to make amends to those who have been harmed by our violation of their boundaries?

6) Do we admit our wrongs promptly? Unless we admit them promptly, we will store these wrongs which can be rationalized into “wrongs against us.” They may then become resentments which sabotage our recovery.”

Categories: boundaries · needs · recovery